Post by Druebey on Aug 17, 2015 21:48:17 GMT -5
First off let me say, my views on this matter are from experience. I lived as a homeless man for over 8 months in 2011 and in a shelter for only 2 of them. I then moved into a extended stay hotel that I will be giving experiences from also. I want this to be known now, I have a deeply emotional investment in this discussion and I will not tolerate Bashing, Berating, etc of the homeless population. I will inform you in this first post the true definations of what you call homeless also, so you can be ware that incorrect usage will get you banned/infracted on this forum. I have no patience after showing enough information to people on another international forum the errors of their ways.
Now to get started, Shelter rats are people that normally are residents of shelters or exclusively use shelters. IN my experience 95% of them are criminals, rapiests, theives, mental illness affected, murderers, etc. They take advantage of the harmless homeless people alot. More often when people think of homeless they think of SHELTER RATS.
Hobos... Lets just state this now, HOBOS are not truly homeless. They are people that have homes that go around on trains, etc and see the nation/nations they are in. They have a source of income to do all this. Typically these are the people you see on homelessness videos and such. RARELY do you see a true homeless person.
Now to copy and paste what I have said from that other forum to here. I will include some of the suggestions I had for fixing this issue.
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Now with all that done, shall we discuss this topic with reverence to the individuals that are experiencing these plights today?
Now to get started, Shelter rats are people that normally are residents of shelters or exclusively use shelters. IN my experience 95% of them are criminals, rapiests, theives, mental illness affected, murderers, etc. They take advantage of the harmless homeless people alot. More often when people think of homeless they think of SHELTER RATS.
Hobos... Lets just state this now, HOBOS are not truly homeless. They are people that have homes that go around on trains, etc and see the nation/nations they are in. They have a source of income to do all this. Typically these are the people you see on homelessness videos and such. RARELY do you see a true homeless person.
Now to copy and paste what I have said from that other forum to here. I will include some of the suggestions I had for fixing this issue.
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I was asked by an individual in pm, How the police treated me...
Well in ATL GA USA, the police would beat us and had authority then and now to kill us on sight. I though was never beat because I would hide at night at five points train station. There was a federal building there, that had a single security guard there... I would sleep in a knoock spot behind the hedges. I would hear the police come through every night, and have heard enough men die due to knife wounds and gunshots... I would wake up in the morning and the other side of the hedges be filled with blood.
In Evansvile IN USA, I was treated as a nobody. Literally, the police didnt do anything to us. Only a few times did I see police beating on the homeless for various reasons, but that was rarer than ATL. Most of the time police did watch us closer... I will say it does make you a bit paranoid if everyday yoru watched like a hawk is after you.
All in all, I guess that is why when I got my apartment, I stash knives around it, lock all my doors, close all my blinds, and NEVER call the police unless needed. Honestly to be frank, I have a deep seeded mistrust of the police force now(used to be going for law enforcement myself in college). So IF that tells you anything about how the police treated us... IMAGINE how regular people treated us... I may do a thread on that next if anyone is interested.
I honestly was lucky to survive in ATL the few times I couldnt sleep where I normally did... The police could have shot me on sight. That is no joke, they literally did it every night at five points train station.
Well in ATL GA USA, the police would beat us and had authority then and now to kill us on sight. I though was never beat because I would hide at night at five points train station. There was a federal building there, that had a single security guard there... I would sleep in a knoock spot behind the hedges. I would hear the police come through every night, and have heard enough men die due to knife wounds and gunshots... I would wake up in the morning and the other side of the hedges be filled with blood.
In Evansvile IN USA, I was treated as a nobody. Literally, the police didnt do anything to us. Only a few times did I see police beating on the homeless for various reasons, but that was rarer than ATL. Most of the time police did watch us closer... I will say it does make you a bit paranoid if everyday yoru watched like a hawk is after you.
All in all, I guess that is why when I got my apartment, I stash knives around it, lock all my doors, close all my blinds, and NEVER call the police unless needed. Honestly to be frank, I have a deep seeded mistrust of the police force now(used to be going for law enforcement myself in college). So IF that tells you anything about how the police treated us... IMAGINE how regular people treated us... I may do a thread on that next if anyone is interested.
I honestly was lucky to survive in ATL the few times I couldnt sleep where I normally did... The police could have shot me on sight. That is no joke, they literally did it every night at five points train station.
FOOD TOPIC
Here is what I ate at the shelters in ATL GA USA and Evansville IN USA... They were comparable to each other in this regard and ONLY this regard...
1. Expired Canned foods(cause the in date stuff was taken home or left out by the people that ran the shelter and resold or taken home)
2. Powdered Eggs every breakfast
3. IF had real eggs, they were rotten and green
4. Bread that was always moldy or slimmy
5. yogurt that would be set out in the sun for hours and then fed to us(activa was one of the major brands)
6. Steaks so thin you can see through them and had mold on them or frost bite.
7. Chicken that was green inside.
8. Cheese that never was without Green spots in it
9. Sausage gravy(if we were lucky we got real sausage to make it with but it had always mold in it) that had the meat a green tint.
10. Pastries from the local bakeries that were just undescibable...
Then you go into those "volunteer groups" as someone mentioned... What did they bring to feed us???
1. Moldy STEAKS... Gravy that was made with weevles or some other insects, corn that was dried to the point you cant tell it was corn...
2. Potatoes that were rotten in the middle and still made us eat them...
3. Rotten produce.
4. home canned foods that were way past date.
list goes on
So anyone that thinks their food actually goes to the people... DONT give it to the shelters, give it to the food cabinets at the churches(they actually make sure expired foods go out to the trash, at least in my experience).
Just something I thought you all would think about... Honestly THINK before you do anything like this please, the pathway to hell is paved with good intentions
Here is what I ate at the shelters in ATL GA USA and Evansville IN USA... They were comparable to each other in this regard and ONLY this regard...
1. Expired Canned foods(cause the in date stuff was taken home or left out by the people that ran the shelter and resold or taken home)
2. Powdered Eggs every breakfast
3. IF had real eggs, they were rotten and green
4. Bread that was always moldy or slimmy
5. yogurt that would be set out in the sun for hours and then fed to us(activa was one of the major brands)
6. Steaks so thin you can see through them and had mold on them or frost bite.
7. Chicken that was green inside.
8. Cheese that never was without Green spots in it
9. Sausage gravy(if we were lucky we got real sausage to make it with but it had always mold in it) that had the meat a green tint.
10. Pastries from the local bakeries that were just undescibable...
Then you go into those "volunteer groups" as someone mentioned... What did they bring to feed us???
1. Moldy STEAKS... Gravy that was made with weevles or some other insects, corn that was dried to the point you cant tell it was corn...
2. Potatoes that were rotten in the middle and still made us eat them...
3. Rotten produce.
4. home canned foods that were way past date.
list goes on
So anyone that thinks their food actually goes to the people... DONT give it to the shelters, give it to the food cabinets at the churches(they actually make sure expired foods go out to the trash, at least in my experience).
Just something I thought you all would think about... Honestly THINK before you do anything like this please, the pathway to hell is paved with good intentions
How to help homeless from my experience and with a story to support views
I was asked a while ago how to help those that are homeless, from my own experience... and it seems the two best words to describe a solution of any type are UNDERSTANDING and COMPASSION. The homeless are not the issue, but the "outside" world is. This could be applied to various other sectors of life so bear with me.
UNDERSTANDING:
The homeless are not majority shelter rats(druggies, rapiests, etc) they are children, people with mental illness(major minority from my experience; another poster even mentioned PTSD personnel), Adults that are handed a hard life, people that just want to be free of stress, etc. When you lump homeless into the SHELTER RAT category, you are doing a great injustice. Most children are told that all homeless are shelter rats for instance.
So how to better understand them? Best way, is to talk to them as humans. You will know those that are truly shelter rats from the harmless ones quickly. Honestly, best time to talk to them, is right after the shelters close their doors. That is when the Shelter Rats are all inside and the harmless are outside... My experience is the shelter rats are the most vial of society. True homeless are not.
Someone mentioned Section 8 as a solution... Little do they know but most of those people are not Homeless but rather convicts or Shelter Rats. A reformed Section 8 would be a solution but how to implement it when political aims are more about ego than the society as a whole?
Compassion ties into the last as most people that talk about homelessness are entitled little children that really have no clue the issues around it. Better care of the mentally ill would help with the PTSD guys I talked to, Children with parents that disciplined them would help the children, punishments for people that take advantage of the homeless would go a great long way.
Not feeding them expired food(as I experienced and have confirmation it still is happening). Helping them truly build themselves out of the muck of being homeless. I dont know how to describe the feelings, attitudes, etc from being homeless yet, but one of them is "muck". Honestly you feel your stuck and cant get out no matter how hard you try.
I had a woman at adecco co that took compassion on me, and helped me get a job at Fifth Third Processing in Evanville IN. It is on main street if you ever want to go look where I worked, there is a pizza parlor two blocks away I would suggest... BUT back to what I was saying, When the people I was training with found out I was homeless... Their attitudes changed. I was treated like I was nothing from my trainer, the trainees, Quality assurance people, Management(all except Jay). Honestly even the UPPER MANAGEMENT treated me like dirt. My food was always stolen, any time I had issues I had to go to my floor manager to help me( Jay was his name). So tell me, how compassion would have made me feel welcome and more productive? I was saving the company upwards of millions of dollars a day when I was talking to merchants, YET the Management mostly treated me like crap. I was let go during winter AFTER I REQUESTED over 10 times that my schedule be changed due to buses. This is after I managed to get an apartment that I hardly saw as I worked over 55 hrs a week. OH and my hours, would be cut down to only 40 when I submitted them... Managers would give the regulars my hours instead of me because I was a temp.
So now, Compassion woulda gone a long way in that situation right? How many of you are thinking, well he made it out with dealing with all that... others can too? Guess what, there are millions that try everyday. I got out by working my butt off and getting little return due to being taken advantage of. So where can millions find jobs today, actual jobs that are offered right now, being homeless? Care to tell me a company that would be willing to take people like me(when I was homeless)? Just compassion to the plights would go along way in workplace and in society as a whole.
(was told this was too hostile for a thread and could not support rational discussion)
What do you all think? I was lil upset by the other thread that started all this, did it bleed through into my words a bit?
I was asked a while ago how to help those that are homeless, from my own experience... and it seems the two best words to describe a solution of any type are UNDERSTANDING and COMPASSION. The homeless are not the issue, but the "outside" world is. This could be applied to various other sectors of life so bear with me.
UNDERSTANDING:
The homeless are not majority shelter rats(druggies, rapiests, etc) they are children, people with mental illness(major minority from my experience; another poster even mentioned PTSD personnel), Adults that are handed a hard life, people that just want to be free of stress, etc. When you lump homeless into the SHELTER RAT category, you are doing a great injustice. Most children are told that all homeless are shelter rats for instance.
So how to better understand them? Best way, is to talk to them as humans. You will know those that are truly shelter rats from the harmless ones quickly. Honestly, best time to talk to them, is right after the shelters close their doors. That is when the Shelter Rats are all inside and the harmless are outside... My experience is the shelter rats are the most vial of society. True homeless are not.
Someone mentioned Section 8 as a solution... Little do they know but most of those people are not Homeless but rather convicts or Shelter Rats. A reformed Section 8 would be a solution but how to implement it when political aims are more about ego than the society as a whole?
Compassion ties into the last as most people that talk about homelessness are entitled little children that really have no clue the issues around it. Better care of the mentally ill would help with the PTSD guys I talked to, Children with parents that disciplined them would help the children, punishments for people that take advantage of the homeless would go a great long way.
Not feeding them expired food(as I experienced and have confirmation it still is happening). Helping them truly build themselves out of the muck of being homeless. I dont know how to describe the feelings, attitudes, etc from being homeless yet, but one of them is "muck". Honestly you feel your stuck and cant get out no matter how hard you try.
I had a woman at adecco co that took compassion on me, and helped me get a job at Fifth Third Processing in Evanville IN. It is on main street if you ever want to go look where I worked, there is a pizza parlor two blocks away I would suggest... BUT back to what I was saying, When the people I was training with found out I was homeless... Their attitudes changed. I was treated like I was nothing from my trainer, the trainees, Quality assurance people, Management(all except Jay). Honestly even the UPPER MANAGEMENT treated me like dirt. My food was always stolen, any time I had issues I had to go to my floor manager to help me( Jay was his name). So tell me, how compassion would have made me feel welcome and more productive? I was saving the company upwards of millions of dollars a day when I was talking to merchants, YET the Management mostly treated me like crap. I was let go during winter AFTER I REQUESTED over 10 times that my schedule be changed due to buses. This is after I managed to get an apartment that I hardly saw as I worked over 55 hrs a week. OH and my hours, would be cut down to only 40 when I submitted them... Managers would give the regulars my hours instead of me because I was a temp.
So now, Compassion woulda gone a long way in that situation right? How many of you are thinking, well he made it out with dealing with all that... others can too? Guess what, there are millions that try everyday. I got out by working my butt off and getting little return due to being taken advantage of. So where can millions find jobs today, actual jobs that are offered right now, being homeless? Care to tell me a company that would be willing to take people like me(when I was homeless)? Just compassion to the plights would go along way in workplace and in society as a whole.
(was told this was too hostile for a thread and could not support rational discussion)
What do you all think? I was lil upset by the other thread that started all this, did it bleed through into my words a bit?
Regular people interactions with homeless from my experience. Even has a side not at beginning about this very thread.
I was homeless at one point and have been here trying to educate the people on here about how I lived and survived during that time. Honestly some of those discussions are now about entitled NATIONALITIES than the issues at hand. I am doing the threads I start to improve upon how people view and know about the plights of those that are homeless.
I honestly wish someone would have done this for me, when I was homeless... AND this is why I am doing it. NOT my ego, nationality, etc... BECAUSE I KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE LITERALLY A NOBODY ACCORDING TO MOST.
That being said, Regular civilians treat the homeless most of the time as a nothing, scurg upon the earth, etc. Honestly read the other threads and you will see how many just want to kill or maim them. When I was homeless there were kids that would literally beat myself and others due to gang mentality and what they are taught by society as a whole. Those of you that never experienced the fear of holding onto all your valuables and clothes each night while having to keep one eye open, feel entitled... BUT dont expect me to feel pity when you lose a dog or something else. I was beating every day or flat out ignored for five months in ATL and 3 months I was ignored and that was even by employers. So honestly feel entitled and feel like theres no reason for these threads.
PROVE ME RIGHT. I honestly am so sick of stupid people talking about homeless as its a problem, it is not. THE PROBLEM IS YOU ALL THAT THINK IT IS. I was asked what would make it better, and UNDERSTANDING is one of them.
I may even make a thread upon that subject because it is a really great one. BECAUSE LESSONS I LEARNED HELP ME IN OTHER AREAS ALSO. GRRRRR people and their ignorance and entitlements.
I was homeless at one point and have been here trying to educate the people on here about how I lived and survived during that time. Honestly some of those discussions are now about entitled NATIONALITIES than the issues at hand. I am doing the threads I start to improve upon how people view and know about the plights of those that are homeless.
I honestly wish someone would have done this for me, when I was homeless... AND this is why I am doing it. NOT my ego, nationality, etc... BECAUSE I KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE LITERALLY A NOBODY ACCORDING TO MOST.
That being said, Regular civilians treat the homeless most of the time as a nothing, scurg upon the earth, etc. Honestly read the other threads and you will see how many just want to kill or maim them. When I was homeless there were kids that would literally beat myself and others due to gang mentality and what they are taught by society as a whole. Those of you that never experienced the fear of holding onto all your valuables and clothes each night while having to keep one eye open, feel entitled... BUT dont expect me to feel pity when you lose a dog or something else. I was beating every day or flat out ignored for five months in ATL and 3 months I was ignored and that was even by employers. So honestly feel entitled and feel like theres no reason for these threads.
PROVE ME RIGHT. I honestly am so sick of stupid people talking about homeless as its a problem, it is not. THE PROBLEM IS YOU ALL THAT THINK IT IS. I was asked what would make it better, and UNDERSTANDING is one of them.
I may even make a thread upon that subject because it is a really great one. BECAUSE LESSONS I LEARNED HELP ME IN OTHER AREAS ALSO. GRRRRR people and their ignorance and entitlements.
How long I was homeless, Choice to be homeless, Manage to get back on feet (Three topics in one response)
It is ok, sometimes I dont articulate well... Alot of what I say has emotion when it comes to this situation and its not just due to my own experiences. Anyhow to answer, I chose to be homeless due to many situational circumstances. Just say I was recovering from events that I am still not able to really discuss even in passing. I though will say this, I have dealt with my "demons" enough I am able to somewhat do normal things lol.
To answer the second part of your question, I was homeless in the span of a year for over 10 months, 5 months at a time. I managed to get myself back on my feet by hardwork and detication to proving those I worked with I was worth something. I was fired from my job at Fifth Third Processing with over 5 k in the bank. So yeah, I learned the true value of money when in ATL (honestly only had 20 bucks for a month and water cost me 55 cent each time I got a small cup from the wendys).
It is ok, sometimes I dont articulate well... Alot of what I say has emotion when it comes to this situation and its not just due to my own experiences. Anyhow to answer, I chose to be homeless due to many situational circumstances. Just say I was recovering from events that I am still not able to really discuss even in passing. I though will say this, I have dealt with my "demons" enough I am able to somewhat do normal things lol.
To answer the second part of your question, I was homeless in the span of a year for over 10 months, 5 months at a time. I managed to get myself back on my feet by hardwork and detication to proving those I worked with I was worth something. I was fired from my job at Fifth Third Processing with over 5 k in the bank. So yeah, I learned the true value of money when in ATL (honestly only had 20 bucks for a month and water cost me 55 cent each time I got a small cup from the wendys).
Relevence of nationality vs nationality debate and how a Merchant support agent that was homeless saved company millions
Ok, first part, it maybe true, but when it dives into national debates and pictures of benches as part of an arguement, that is nationality entitlement to me... When you are sitting hungry and scared for your life at times... it doesnt matter what people say about one country or the other.
Secondly, I was a merchant support agent. I would field calls every 15 mins from merchants about errors in their batches and credit card scanners. I would then due to having work harder, do tech support along with fixing batches from the banks end most of the time. So yeah, I saved them millions and the merchants over 3 billion in two months. That being said, I also fielded collection calls and more due to my manager (Jay) training me beyond what my job description was due to my work ethic and completeness(his words). He had approved my time schedule change but it was over rode by the senior manager of the company that literally sat around the corner from where I sat. Now that being said, we had contracts with whole foods CO, and many other companies that I have recently found out, they lost soon after I left.
So if that answers that Validity question, if not I can go into deeper details on what my job was and how I did what I did.
Ok, first part, it maybe true, but when it dives into national debates and pictures of benches as part of an arguement, that is nationality entitlement to me... When you are sitting hungry and scared for your life at times... it doesnt matter what people say about one country or the other.
Secondly, I was a merchant support agent. I would field calls every 15 mins from merchants about errors in their batches and credit card scanners. I would then due to having work harder, do tech support along with fixing batches from the banks end most of the time. So yeah, I saved them millions and the merchants over 3 billion in two months. That being said, I also fielded collection calls and more due to my manager (Jay) training me beyond what my job description was due to my work ethic and completeness(his words). He had approved my time schedule change but it was over rode by the senior manager of the company that literally sat around the corner from where I sat. Now that being said, we had contracts with whole foods CO, and many other companies that I have recently found out, they lost soon after I left.
So if that answers that Validity question, if not I can go into deeper details on what my job was and how I did what I did.
Possible solution that may work...
Honestly I have to say it is an interesting idea and is radically different from section 8 or low income housing... HUD housing is also totally different than this. Honestly It would work, if had the right charter and etc. Right now there are too many "legal" loopholes for such organizations to really work. Sadly that is how the shetler in Evansville was run, organization under a church under a church organization, list went on and each line item had its own corruption.
I could see it working if the oversight was very very high and the government not funding it. But I would also like to see jobs added to this, as that would be more a push in the right direction... Some jobs that dont mean they have to be out near people really, but interact with "normal" people would be good. Make them feel like they are somebody again, does that make sense?
Honestly I have to say it is an interesting idea and is radically different from section 8 or low income housing... HUD housing is also totally different than this. Honestly It would work, if had the right charter and etc. Right now there are too many "legal" loopholes for such organizations to really work. Sadly that is how the shetler in Evansville was run, organization under a church under a church organization, list went on and each line item had its own corruption.
I could see it working if the oversight was very very high and the government not funding it. But I would also like to see jobs added to this, as that would be more a push in the right direction... Some jobs that dont mean they have to be out near people really, but interact with "normal" people would be good. Make them feel like they are somebody again, does that make sense?
www.ajc.com/news/news/atlanta-police-investigating-shooting-deaths-of-tw/njG4y/
Homeless man was shot multiple times while sleeping, well two of them.
Little stats on the topic from GA in 2011...
www.dca.state.ga.us/housing/specialneeds/programs/documents/DCA2011ReportonHomelessnessFINAL.pdf
A case of a homeless man being beaten by regular people,
www.examiner.com/article/man-beaten-unconscious-dies-more-than-a-week-later-suspect-charged-with-murder
Another site with figures stating ECONOMIC ISSUES as main cause:
www.homeaidatlanta.org/helpnumbers.php
I recongize "MO"
[MEDIA=youtube]Jya9AbP424M[/MEDIA]
More figures
www.homeaid.org/HomeAid-Stories/69/top-causes-of-homelessness
Educational source
nationalhomeless.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/hate_report_2008.pdf
Preying on the homeless
www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/27449187/homeless-outreach-program-under-investigation
Homeless man was shot multiple times while sleeping, well two of them.
Little stats on the topic from GA in 2011...
www.dca.state.ga.us/housing/specialneeds/programs/documents/DCA2011ReportonHomelessnessFINAL.pdf
A case of a homeless man being beaten by regular people,
www.examiner.com/article/man-beaten-unconscious-dies-more-than-a-week-later-suspect-charged-with-murder
Another site with figures stating ECONOMIC ISSUES as main cause:
www.homeaidatlanta.org/helpnumbers.php
I recongize "MO"
[MEDIA=youtube]Jya9AbP424M[/MEDIA]
More figures
www.homeaid.org/HomeAid-Stories/69/top-causes-of-homelessness
Educational source
nationalhomeless.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/hate_report_2008.pdf
Preying on the homeless
www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/27449187/homeless-outreach-program-under-investigation
Now with all that done, shall we discuss this topic with reverence to the individuals that are experiencing these plights today?